The Apple Wiki:Community portal/2012

Corona Info
We need to get Corona info integrated into the wiki. There's good info here: http://pod2g-ios.blogspot.com/2012/01/details-on-corona.html beej 21:54, 2 January 2012 (MST)

New Upper Left Image
If someone has a good one, I'll change it. Who still has an iPhone 2G? --geohot 13:11, 12 December 2011 (MST)
 * File:NewLogo.png? Problem is one like that doesnt scale well. Maybe a rotated (like this) image of an iPhone 4S or an iPad 2. I have an image of a rotated iPhone 4S if you want... --5urd 14:04, 12 December 2011 (MST)
 * Something with an iPhone and the iPhone wiki logo from the main page would look good. I'll see if I can make one up. the  kirby  lover  23:06, 17 December 2011 (MST)
 * why not the iOS logo? --M2m 10:02, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * I don't think we can use that because it's a copyrighted logo. the  kirby  lover  18:06, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * Agreed --5urd 18:15, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * Mine requires a bit of extra CSS for it too look good. This can be added to Mediawiki:skin.css. the  kirby  lover  17:59, 19 December 2011 (MST)
 * i have an iPhone 2G geohot! --Zmaster 12:08, 24 December 2011 (MST)
 * Ok, I got something from @iSurenix. He says: "In case you don't like it, I can always fix it up etc. but I think it looks new, fresh and updated." -- http 13:40, 25 December 2011 (MST)
 * Excellent! --5urd 14:54, 25 December 2011 (MST)
 * I think it blends into the background too much because the iPhone is white. Thats just my opinion thought. Otherwise I like it. --Jacob 16:18, 25 December 2011 (MST)
 * Maybe a black one? --5urd 17:14, 25 December 2011 (MST)
 * I got a resized version from him and uploaded it. Some Mediawiki documentation said ideal size is 135x135 (max 150x150). And about the white he commented: "I like how I've used the white iPhone. It's lie I've said "new and fresh". Not a lot places use white iPhones. Let alone in that specific position. I like it." (@iSurenix). -- http 17:09, 26 December 2011 (MST)
 * We could put a background behind the page if it's staying white... maybe the iOS textured background? the  kirby  lover  19:15, 26 December 2011 (MST)
 * Here's the css for the textured background I was talking about. To try it, copy and paste this to your address bar: javascript:void(importStylesheet("User:thekirbylover/skin.css")) the  kirby  lover  18:31, 31 December 2011 (MST)
 * I like both of these! The white one seems a bit more "professional" so that's nice, but the text is a little pale. They're both better than the existing logo though, so I'd be happy with either. Britta 18:17, 31 December 2011 (MST)
 * Why isn't the p in iPhone capitalized? Otherwise, I like the white one. I also like the skin, if general consensus is change the skin I will do it. --geohot 16:54, 5 January 2012 (MST)
 * He just updated to "iPhone" - new image uploaded. -- http 17:15, 6 January 2012 (MST)
 * Thanks! Image has been changed --geohot 22:42, 7 January 2012 (MST)

Proposed logos
These are thumbnails, click on them to view in normal size.

Cydia links
Links to Cydia, such as cydia://package/com.example.test, don't seem to wanna be linkified by the wiki, but there's an internal setting you can change: $wgUrlProtocols[] = "cydia://";. You might also want to use MediaWiki:Vector.css to add a mini Cydia icon next to it. the kirby  lover  18:06, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * As for the localsettings.php change, this is geohot's problem. As for the CSS change, we could use Cydia.png@16px. --5urd 18:15, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * Yep, I was gonna put that CSS in my User:thekirbylover/monobook.css after I posted that. Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but I think Monobook.css is used on Vector pages too. the  kirby  lover  18:21, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * I checked the source and the "/load.php?{CRAP}" are empty and for some reason, Google Chrome's "Inspect Element" show up styles... --5urd 18:29, 18 December 2011 (MST)
 * /skin.css is cross skin while /vector.css and /monobook.css are per-skin --5urd 18:31, 18 December 2011 (MST)

Support added --geohot 16:54, 5 January 2012 (MST)
 * Thanks! the  kirby  lover  20:04, 5 January 2012 (MST)

Theme
Oh, also, can you please install the gadgets extension and add these pages: MediaWiki:Gadgets-definition * betatheme[ResourceLoader]|betatheme.css|betatheme.js MediaWiki:Gadget-betatheme Beta theme (works best with the Vector theme) MediaWiki:Gadget-betatheme.css @import "/wiki/index.php?title=User:thekirbylover/skin.css&action=raw&ctype=text/css"; MediaWiki:Gadget-betatheme.js importScript("User:thekirbylover/skin.js") (or you can give me admin privileges and I'll take care of the mediawiki:gadget pages) the  kirby  lover  00:59, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * Can't you just put the css in Mediawiki:Common.css and the js in Mediawiki:Common.js? It would make it so any admin can edit instead of just you, which might be better. --5urd 11:25, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * Yeah, I thought of that a while after I posted it. Though I'd still need admin privileges to edit them. the  kirby  lover  15:58, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * I'm happy to point the global CSS to your page, reading about Gadget now...though a global js you can edit, particularly one that imports offsite js, will require some persuading? :P --geohot 22:26, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * I tried adding an import to the vector skin default css, didn't work. Still want me to do the gadget thing? --geohot 22:42, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * Add @import "//cdn.hbang.ws/css/iphonewiki.css"; to MediaWiki:Vector.css and importScriptURI("//cdn.hbang.ws/js/iphonewiki.js"); to MediaWiki:Common.js - both links are to my site and should be live in a few minutes. Also, you'll want to look at allowing more database connections - I've been getting "This wiki has a problem - max_connections reached" a lot lately. the  kirby  lover  22:50, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * css import still isn't working, did I do it right? External javascript is a security vuln, if there are really worthwhile things to be added in javascript(I don't really like the share buttons they add to everything these days, and wikipedia doesn't AJAX), then I'll add them directly on this site. I know about the database problem, looking into it now --geohot 22:59, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * CSS's live now - check to see if it comes up. I believe the internal css files are cached by MediaWiki, so maybe try the @import line in Vector.css, then clear your cache, shift+click on refresh in Chrome and Firefox.
 * I'll remove the ajax/share js, though I still want to use js to make checkboxes into iOS switches, which could just be on MediaWiki:Common.js. the  kirby  lover  23:12, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * Imports didn't work, no idea why, chrome didn't even try to load the imported css, so I pasted right in vector. Any downsides? And any way to give you edit rights to that page? I will e-mail about max_user_connections before I go to bed tonight, it's currently set at 15. It may also be time to move this wiki to a bigger server, my account gets CPU throttled all of the time(and as a result the page is a little slow), though I'm not sure where, this site gets about 2 qps. --geohot 23:29, 7 January 2012 (MST)
 * Theme's working now, must have just been the wiki caching it. Do a ctrl+click refresh to clear your cache; tap refresh then refresh again on mobile safari. Is the site on shared hosting or VPS? When I get my server running, I'll be happy to run it from here. the  kirby  lover  23:34, 7 January 2012 (MST)

I made a few minor tweaks to the CSS to resemble iOS 5 a little more (in browsers that have good CSS 3 support, anyways). I'll happily revert the changes if they're not well-received. (I think it looks better, but I am kinda biased on this. :P) And great job on the theme, guys! -- Dialexio 01:58, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Thanks ;) Your additions look cool, though I'm working on making the first heading look like a title bar on iOS. Also, looks like geohot put my css on MediaWiki:Vector.css, which is now overriding the one on my server - can you please take it off and add @import "http://cdn.hbang.ws/css/iphonewiki.css";</tt> so it loads from my server? (I'll include your changes to my css.) Or someone can make me a sysop so I can edit it myself. the  kirby  lover  02:20, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Sure. I would like to keep everything on The iPhone Wiki though, so this may be a temporary thing until the theme feels complete and any kinks in the CSS are worked out. -- Dialexio 11:42, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * I tried the import last night, it didn't work. External css is fine temporarily, external js is never allowed. --geohot 12:27, 8 January 2012 (MST)

I'd just like to throw my objection into the bucket here, because the new theme overwrote Vector and thus does not allow me to easily revert it (MonoBook is the 500 year old wikipedia theme). I also know someone who would gladly host this site so the database doesn't constantly time out, and has more open connections, for relatively low cost with good speed and uptime. If you'd like me to put you in touch geohot email me at my wiki username at gmail. --Acfrazier 12:51, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Yea, an option for theme could be added. I'm trying to deal with the max_user_connections now, though hostmonster claims it was always 15. The whole thing is fishy, since php is single threaded and there are only 10 php processes running. If I move, it'll probably be to EC2, like $500 per year but I get to be root on the server. --geohot 13:01, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * At this point I'd be willing to pay for it, I've known this guy for ten years so I'd get a decent rate (we could probably get a dedicated so you'd have root). It's hard to do maintenance edits when it times out and this has been a problem for a few weeks that I've seen, that's why I haven't done much (but soon I'll have a lot of info to add). It's greatly upsetting that this entire wealth of information is here, but it's semi-inaccessible. --Austen Frazier 13:09, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Yea, I'm digging into it now, it's only gotten bad recently. It looks like they messed with mysql on nov 22, 2011. It doesn't appear to be a bandwidth issue, it's a connection issue. For some reason, each php process is making two connections to the database. 10*2 = 20 > 15. Time to read some PHP, or figure out how to only launch 7 processes. --geohot 13:18, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Well, my host suggested that you could use http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:APC on his hosting and it'd give you a lot more breathing room. Most hosts limit you to 15 db connections (to prevent crashing the server with the 'slashdot effect' but hostgator's server is probably massively overloaded.) EC2 doesn't have good enough disk performance for database access. He told me he could have you moved today if you wanted to do it, I can get you in touch with him. The reason I primarily go with him is it's one to one, he runs his own stuff. If something comes up you have direct support. It's kind of hard being the middleman though, in my opinion he'd be worth talking to. (I'd appreciate it if you'd email me, with the timeout this is getting exceedingly hard to reply). --Austen Frazier 13:31, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Error is hopefully fixed! Edited mediawiki to use mysql_pconnect instead of mysql_connect and limited db connections to one per process. I'll send you an e-mail tonight about possibly moving the site, although I'm going to do a little profiling here first, I've been with hostmonster for a while and overall they have been good. Currently I don't have a cache, looking into APC or memcached as a middle layer between the db and php(yay php-memcached-mysql just like facebook). --geohot 13:40, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Nope. Hot an error on last save. Hostinginsiders. $7 a month. CPanel. Full control over the server. Etc. --5urd 14:25, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * I'm not particularly concerned with price as I am reliability, hence why I offered my host. (That's not to say he's expensive, but.. you get what you pay for.) It may be fixed, but page load times are still unnecessarily long. I look forward to your email, geohot. --Austen Frazier 15:52, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Re the theme, geohot can go to the skins folder, copy Vector.php -> iPhone.php and rename the class names to say iPhone instead of Vector (but not the css files), then move MediaWiki:Vector.css -> MediaWiki:Iphone.css and in LocalSettings.php, $wgDefaultSkin="iphone";</tt>. Then there will be an option to go back to regular Vector.
 * With the slowdowns, it's probably 'cause MW 1.17 uses a load.php script (ResourceLoader) to combine css/js to be faster, but it also opens a new connection to the database to see what it can load from MediaWiki:Common.css, etc. I haven't run MW myself since 1.16, so I'm not entirely sure what to do there, but a cache extension should do the trick. the  kirby  lover  19:20, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Also, geohot, Chrome Web inspector says there's no client-side caching, meaning images get re-downloaded every time. Try putting this code into a .htaccess file in the wiki folder. It'll force caching of files, especially the images in the background of the theme. the  kirby

lover 19:38, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * I see 304s for the images. This resourceloader thing is annoying, even to send a 304 it has to load the damn php environment(i'm using fastcgi, but still) for each js and css file. The db errors are gone, but at the cost of performance. I enabled mw filecache, but it doesn't solve the problem. I believe the slowness is caused by the CPU throttling. I need a real server. --geohot 20:28, 8 January 2012 (MST)

The new icon looks fantastic! I just have a minor issue with the new theme: the grey pinstripe background reduces readability of the text by some degree, with decreased contrast and the pattern of the pinstripes. Can I nominate the lighter grey color and more subtle pinstriping of tables (like "Contents" boxes) as the main text background color? I guess then the Contents boxes would be the same color, or even lighter, and that seems OK too. It'd be a little bit of a departure from Apple style, but I think it'd be a worthwhile change for a text-focused site. Thanks! Britta 18:07, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * I'm planning to put the page into boxes, like the Settings app, so that should make it easier to read. the  kirby  lover  19:20, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * OK! I imagine that boxes might be visually distracting...but I'll comment on it when I see it. :) Also, the left sidebar seems to be white at the moment instead of linen-textured; I imagine that just means that an image link is temporarily broken or something? Might also be helpful to have a backup background color listed in the CSS? Britta 20:47, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * I might actually just go with a gradient background like iPad settings, instead of using boxes. With the sidebar, not sure exactly what's happening there, I guess I forgot to add a backup color :/ the  kirby  lover  20:56, 8 January 2012 (MST)

Could an admin please add User:thekirbylover/monobook.css to MediaWiki:Monobook.css, so the logo is readable in that skin? the kirby  lover  01:26, 13 January 2012 (MST)
 * I added some CSS to improve the logo's readability a little more, but I chose not to add your CSS in case people don't like the iOS theming. -- Dialexio 16:48, 13 January 2012 (MST)

Why is there a weird reflection under the new top left image? Is that a code or someone edited it that made that? The reflection doesn't look right at all. Can someone remove that, please? Also, the top back linen area looks out of place when it crosses the top banner, which also looks off. I there a way to cut it JUST as it touched that banner? --Surenix 08:34, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * Done. (The reflection was only CSS for WebKit-based browsers, by the way.) -- Dialexio 11:18, 14 January 2012 (MST)

Slowness
I've added a filecache to hopefully speed things up a bit, and I removed fastcgi. It's a bit more bearable now, post here if you feel otherwise. I believe the majority of the slowness is the CPU throttling of my webhost and PHP's love for eating up CPU. We'll see how it goes for the next few days. --geohot 21:45, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * Thank you for everything! I do get this once-in-a-while though. (1 in 10 requests [not as bad as before]):

HTTP Error 500 (Internal Server Error): An unexpected condition was encountered while the server was attempting to fulfill the request.
 * --5urd 22:02, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * I also get 503 Service Temporarily Unavailable sometimes. The worst I've gotten is a completely blank page, not even any html. the  kirby  lover  22:24, 8 January 2012 (MST)
 * It's back to normal again; usable, but incredibly slow, with sometimes timeouts or other errors. Do you have access logs over time periods? Maybe it's just the increased traffic. For example pod2g's blog links here, so that normal users read some stuff. And related to caching, I've set the option in Preferences to not cache the pages. That doesn't help, but I'm still suffering the Mobile Safari caching bug. (Just don't make it worse.) Mobile Safari caching bug: when on the Recent Changes page (showing up to date content), clicking on some diff to show the changes, doing nothing and press browser Back button goes back to Recent Changes page, but (sometimes) showing data that is days old. --http 01:22, 9 January 2012 (MST)
 * (The Mobile Safari caching bug seems to be happening across many different sites.) Britta 05:42, 9 January 2012 (MST)
 * Looking around the wiki, I noticed that I'll get a blank page if I visit a page that hasn't been visited since it was last edited (though I might be wrong), and the css (even the base vector css!) keeps going on-and-off. Geohot, have you tried the caching directions I posted above? the  kirby  lover  07:39, 9 January 2012 (MST)

Hostmonster upgraded me to a better server. Seems fast now. Yay hostmonster! --geohot 09:24, 10 January 2012 (MST)
 * Definitely feels 1000 times faster! Thanks! the  kirby  lover
 * Well, if you decide to move (if the site outgrows this server, again) you know where to find me. --Austen Frazier 11:05, 10 January 2012 (MST)
 * Wow, it's working again! Thank you! -- http 16:15, 10 January 2012 (MST)

opensn0w article undeletion
http said to notify when released.. we have something tangible now. It's open source, so there is no 'cut' release for the time being. --Austen Frazier 15:01, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * Where are the released files? --Dylan Laws 02:02, 16 January 2012 (MST)
 * On the deleted page it had this link: https://github.com/velocitylimitless/opensn0w -- http 03:41, 16 January 2012 (MST)
 * What exactly does it do, I've read over the readme but not fully understaning the program, what it can run on, and if its a console or GUI. --Dylan Laws 11:25, 16 January 2012 (MST)
 * The readme says "Why not use redsn0w? It has a graphical user interface!" means it is a console app designed for implementation in other programs. --5urd 12:05, 16 January 2012 (MST)

silversn0w
Am I allowed to propose a new page for my new program silversn0w? --Dylan Laws 23:48, 13 January 2012 (MST)
 * What does it do? --http 23:27, 13 January 2012 (MST)
 * Right now its a limera1n injector, you can upload files through iBoot (e.g iBSS, iBEC, ramdisks), but im working on making it a jailbreak.--Dylan Laws 23:48, 13 January 2012 (MST)
 * Is this ok? --Dylan Laws 11:29, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * You just posted it anyway and its crap, can someone delete the page? --Ryanb93 12:22, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * You posted it w/o the discussion being finalized! --5urd 14:38, 14 January 2012 (MST)

@Dialexio: How did it violate GPL v3? Was it not open sourced while using iRecovery (which is)? --5urd 14:41, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * Indeed. -- Dialexio 14:53, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * What's the problem? --Dylan Laws 15:00, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * Any program that uses software released under the GNU GPL (any version), in this case iRecovery, the program must be open source. Thats why sn0wbreeze is (XPwn, VFDecrypt), Seas0nPass (XPwn, VFDecrypt), iDecryptIt (VFDecrypt, 7-zip), etc. --5urd 20:32, 15 January 2012 (MST)

If we must discuss this then shall we do it now? --Dylan Laws 15:02, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * ? --5urd 15:06, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * just delete it and remove me if you want, do don't want any part do what geohot has made. I've got my own wiki on my site, so, I'm good. I'm just a useless dead weight here. --Dylan Laws 15:13, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * We arn't trying to make you upset, but you arn't following the rules of GUIs are stated in the category. --5urd 16:22, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * It's fine, I'm just kinda upset that most of the time, there's already a program out there for most of the stuff I make. I'll contribute to this wiki as much as I can. Maybe when i/if I finish silversn0w I'll ask if I can post it here.--Dylan Laws 16:55, 14 January 2012 (MST)

Rename Requests
The plugin to do renames has been installed, renames are at the discretion of our current admins. --geohot 13:53, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * It looks like only you can perform renames at the moment. The extension's page says you can add a line of code (I think to LocalSettings.php… not sure though) to give admins the ability to perform renames, though. -- Dialexio 14:50, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * bureaucrats can do it already. But geohot is the only one... --5urd 15:06, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * sysops can do it now too, sorry thought that was the default --geohot 20:21, 14 January 2012 (MST)

Banning GUI Tools
I'm starting to think banning "GUI tools" is a good idea, the silversn0w discussion was removed without consensus and a page was created. Like wikipedia, we need notability criteria. If your tool isn't used by at least a 1000 people, it does not belong here. To the posters of GUI tools, why not spend your time creating constructive pages instead, documenting poorly documented things and fixing typos? --geohot 13:53, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * I don't think that will be necessary. The silversn0w thing was created before the discussion was even finished. That is the problem. Maybe a ban rule on people who post things w/o a finalized discussion... --5urd 14:38, 14 January 2012 (MST)
 * Maybe a "new page wizard" could be used, like on Wikipedia. It could ask "what is the article about?", then it keeps asking questions till it decides whether the page should be allowed or to ask here first. the  kirby  lover  22:47, 14 January 2012 (MST)

AcidSn0w
Can I propose a page for acidsn0w? I heard that there was stolen code, so I haven't posted. --Haifisch 17:02, 17 January 2012 (MST)
 * The first beta did use stolen code, but the second beta fixed that. As it is still in beta, a page may not be a good idea. It does have a good user-base as shown in their blog comments, but it is up to the sysops. If you are in the Pwn Dev Team, then NO. --5urd 17:09, 17 January 2012 (MST)
 * I am not in their team. :P I'll wait till/if they release it. --Haifisch 17:37, 17 January 2012 (MST)
 * I want to make something clear about this wiki, it's called "The iPhone Wiki", not "The iPhone Community Wiki", or even "The Jailbreaking Wiki". This site exists to document the iPhone, not who made what GUI. A jailbreak tool that doesn't introduce exploits or isn't very widely used isn't notable. To clarify, the Limera1n_Exploit page is far more valuable than the limera1n page. Please focus on adding technical content instead of thinly veiled advertisements. For example, it's appalling we don't have a page documenting ASLR --geohot 23:16, 17 January 2012 (MST)
 * I would also like to see the Baseband ticket system documented --geohot 14:48, 18 January 2012 (MST)

IMG3 File Key Grabbing
How does one grab the keys for the IMG3 files if they have a decrypted ramdisk? I have genpass, xpwn, and vfdecrypt, but what do I use to get keys for IMG3 files? --5urd 17:17, 2 February 2012 (MST)
 * Unlike the vfdecrypt key, the keys for decrypting the IMG3 are stored encrypted in the KBAG section of the IMG3 file itself, not the ramdisk. These keys are encrypted using the GID Key, so access to the AES engine is required. On a device compatible with greenpois0n or openiBoot, this process is (loosely) documented  here. I am working on implementing a method that can be performed on a jailbroken 4S or iPad 2 (is that is what you're looking for?) and will release when finished --0x56 20:12, 1 March 2012 (MST)
 * Yah, running greenpois0n is my problem. I cant find the program. --5urd 21:02, 1 March 2012 (MST)
 * I was mistaken, I won't be able to accomplish this for the 4S or iPad 2 due to a limitation that was not documented here --0x56 07:00, 5 March 2012 (MST)

Site problems, part deux
I'm noticing a lot of intermittent 500 errors again, anyone else notice this issue? Austen Frazier 08:15, 13 March 2012 (MDT)
 * Yep. The server is definitely choking, again. --beej 08:41, 13 March 2012 (MDT)
 * It seems much better, now. Anybody know what changed? Maybe the vm was moved to different host or another busy vm sharing this host was moved off? --beej 08:20, 16 April 2012 (MDT)
 * I think it's time to move skin assets to a cdn like Amazon for speed (like Wikipedia's bits.wikimedia.org) and use a better cache like memcached. the  kirby  lover  17:49, 13 March 2012 (MDT)

iPad 3 Global vs. iPad 3 GSM
To me, it seems the iPad 3 Global is really a GSM model (correct me if I'm wrong). So should we continue to use  or should we use  ? --5urd 16:27, 23 August 2012 (MDT)
 * I think we should stick with "Global." When I decided on the suffixes, I chose "Global" because it's the cellular model that's sold internationally, and the CDMA/Verizon-configured version can use GSM networks. -- Dialexio 22:53, 23 August 2012 (MDT)

Date Formats
We have a few date formats used on this site for release dates: I think we should choose one. I personally like  so there is no ambiguity on the date: --5urd 13:01, 15 September 2012 (MDT)
 * Firmware Keys - YYYY/MM/DD
 * Keynote - Month DD, YYYY
 * 2012/05/06
 * May 6, 2012?
 * June 5, 2012?
 * Didn't we have this discussion somewhere else already? My answer here is this: Where we have the space, always use month names, so that it is clear which format is in use. I would prefer "5 May 2012" as format for these. For the order, I dislike the US format, because of the inconsistent order. Either it should be D-M-Y or Y-M-D. I would prefer the ISO ordering with a dash: YYYY-MM-DD. If we use the dash, make sure it's HTML-non-breakable. And don't use the slash (/) as separator, because that indicates US-format. --http 18:04, 16 September 2012 (MDT)

iPhone 5
On the AnandTech report on the iPhone 5, it has two model numbers listed:  for   and   for. This leads me to beleive there is a GSM model and a Global model. This would explain the  that the websites are reporting. The  is the Global model and   would be the GSM model. Is there anything definative? --5urd 12:57, 17 September 2012 (MDT)
 * I haven't seen any information about what's what, except for A1428 and A1429 corresponding to the GSM (North American?) and "Global" models. -- Dialexio 14:32, 20 September 2012 (MDT)

iPhone 4
What is ? Is that the 8GB version? If so, we should add it to Firmware. --5urd 11:30, 20 September 2012 (MDT)
 * The iOS 6.0 IPSW for the iPhone3,2 suggests that the n90bap comes in 8 GB, 32 GB, and 64 GB flavors. I still don't know what it is though. I've held off on adding this (as well as the iPhone 5) to the Firmware page for now because I feel that we need to decide on how to refer to them first. -- Dialexio 14:32, 20 September 2012 (MDT)
 * So if it is iPhone3,2, then it is definitely an iPhone 4. But what it is truly is unknown as of now. However, I see 8, 16, and 32. Not 64 version:

SystemPartitionPadding n90b 16         160          32          320          8          80
 * It also appears to run on A4, the same one that the other iPhone 4's ran on:

Platform s5l8930x
 * That also means it is jailbreakable ATM. I wasn't able to find anything else interesting in the . --5urd 20:08, 20 September 2012 (MDT)
 * I wouldn't say with certainty that it's jailbreakable. Apple could have pushed a bootrom update with the iPhone3,2. (All iPhone 3GS units have the S5L8920, and there are two different bootrom revisions for it) -- Dialexio 22:32, 20 September 2012 (MDT)
 * Well, it appears to be running the same baseband device as the original iPhone 4 GSM, which implies it is a GSM model. --5urd 16:44, 28 September 2012 (MDT)

iPad2,4
Should we call it  or   on the key pages? --5urd 18:59, 8 March 2012 (MST)
 * Personally, I like how "iPad 2 Wi-Fi S5L8942" sounds more. It could be truncated to "iPad 2 S5L8942" or something if people think the name is too long. -- Dialexio 20:07, 8 March 2012 (MST)
 * I would not remove the Wi-Fi part, because if there's ever a 3G version, we would have to rename everything. I would prefer a shorter name like R2 or so. Also because S5L is the processor and not a public device name. Something official? Is there no statement from Apple yet? Maybe we should wait a few days until it's out? Or is there anything that can't wait so long? --http 00:18, 9 March 2012 (MST)
 * Apple's marketing it as the same old iPad 2. (Interestingly, Apple's online store does suggest that the all flavors of the iPad 2 have new model numbers.) Apple will still sell 3G versions of the iPad 2, but we haven't seen any "iPad2,5" firmware or something… Just the "iPad2,4." If the 3G iPads were receiving the S5L8942, their unique firmwares probably would've been pushed on http://itunes.com/version on Wednesday like all of the other devices. -- Dialexio 10:25, 9 March 2012 (MST)
 * I personally like R2 as it is shorter and easier to remember. I will change Template:Keys accordingly. --5urd 16:21, 9 March 2012 (MST)
 * I know this is an old topic that was already decided on, but it came to my attention a couple of days ago that Apple refers to this iPad 2 revision as "iPad 2 Wi-Fi (Rev A)" (at least their iPhone Developer Center). I'd like to propose (gradually?) changing all references to this. -- Dialexio 19:37, 16 September 2012 (MDT)
 * I'm for that. (iPad 2 Wi-Fi Rev A) and (iPhone 4 GSM Rev A). --5urd 17:21, 23 October 2012 (MDT)

Baseband Chip Pages
This has been discused before, but why do we use the marketing name for the earliest three baseband chip pages? Because we list the processors under their internal name (not marketing) and the device pages are their internal, not marketing (n82ap instead of "iPhone 3G"; n72ap instead of "iPod touch 3G" or "iPod touch (third generation)"). We even have the key pages by code name and build number, not version! Those three pages are the only ones that are listed under their marketing name, not internal. --5urd 10:24, 25 October 2012 (MDT)

Key Pages for iPhone 4 GSM
Currently, we list the GSM varient's key pages with  with the Rev A ones at , but if Apple decides to release another version of the CDMA varient, then we would have: I think we should move the original GSM ones to  like we do for other pages such as Firmware (GSM/GSM Rev A/CDMA) and Beta Firmware (GSM/CDMA). This was proposed back about a month after the CDMA version came out, but we left it.
 * iPhone 4
 * iPhone 4 GSM Rev A
 * iPhone 4 CDMA
 * iPhone 4 CDMA Rev A

Maybe just four or five pages a day? It will take a few weeks, but it could be done. --5urd 16:02, 31 October 2012 (MDT)
 * Being the person that initially proposed this change, it sounds good to me (as I said on Twitter). Since there are quite a lot of key pages, it would definitely be best to spread out the change over several days (or weeks). -- Dialexio 23:01, 31 October 2012 (MDT)
 * The extension  was fine when there was only one iPhone 4. But now, with the CDMA, Rev. A, etc. we need the differentiation. So yes, I agree with the change. But I would rather change all pages at once (if everybody agrees to the change itself). Preferably during a quiet time, when there were no other edits for a week or so. And by the way, for the iPhone 5, Apple refers to the two models as A1428 and A1429, not Global and GSM:  --http 01:33, 2 November 2012 (MDT)

Mediawiki upgraded
Now version 1.20.2 And switched to PHP 5.4, hopefully it'll be faster. --geohot (talk) 00:49, 22 December 2012 (MST)
 * Thanks --Haifisch (talk) 00:52, 22 December 2012 (MST)
 * We have realish caching now too, there's no reason this site perf should be bad. If it's still slow at all tomorrow, let me know andI'll move to rackspace --geohot (talk) 04:19, 22 December 2012 (MST)
 * Definitely seems faster. The update caused a few CSS problems though - the background image URL needs to be updated to this and the borders on the top buttons need to be removed. the  kirby  lover  04:24, 22 December 2012 (MST)
 * I'll be working on the CSS fixes. It should be done by tonight. -- Dialexio 11:39, 22 December 2012 (MST)
 * Great. Seems much faster now. Thanks geohot. --Adaminsull (talk) 11:40, 22 December 2012 (MST)
 * Great! But we now have a problem. The  mirror is not a duplicate, but a whole nother instance. If you compare the Recent Changes of them both, they are different. George, can you edit the   or whatever to **REDIRECT** all traffic over? --5urd (talk) 04:50, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * So after clicking Save, I was put onto . Its the same site, but I'm no longer logged in. The edit was saved as you can see, but it could be annoying and ip addresses can be scary to paranoid people. Is there something that tells the server to send you to that IP address when you save? If there is, can you change that also? --5urd (talk) 04:53, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Err yea, it isn't exactly "mirroring". Everything is switched to 166.78.23.129, and I configured it so it no longer shows up as an ip address. A redirect is tricky, because where do I redirect it to, the ip? Where do links from that site go? The traffic to the old site has been going down every hour, and will fully switch once everyones DNS cache is flushed. --geohot (talk) 16:48, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Yes! Thanks! --5urd (talk) 00:50, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Title Icon
The top left icon is showing an iPhone 4S. I have made one similar for the iPhone 5. Please consider using it. I5.png --Adaminsull (talk) 16:08, 23 December 2012 (UTC)
 * The image has some artifacts around it. --5urd (talk) 00:50, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * What do you mean? --Adaminsull (talk) 01:00, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Clean up the image --Haifisch (talk) 20:19, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I added it over on the right. Look on the left side of the phone. It looks slightly blocky. The cob isn't complete. I'll see if i can fix up the iPhone one. Maybe we could get iSurenix to fix it up? I like the blue text, but I don't know if it will fit with the highly gray/black stuff. I guess it could make it look like a link, but IDK. --5urd (talk) 20:24, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Give me a while and I will try to fix it closer. --adaminsull (talk) 20:59, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Check i5.png now. --adaminsull (talk) 21:10, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Also I did i5image.png. --adaminsull (talk) 21:25, 24 December 2012 (UTC)

Stub
Can we rename "Stub|firmware to stub|Page so its stub page as it sounds silly as firmware? --adaminsull (talk) 23:32, 25 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Firmware is software for the hardware. i.e. baseband. software is user mode stuff. Plus, I set it up that way because that is how Wikipedia does it. It was a simple copy-paste with some modifications so it would work here. --5urd (talk) 00:05, 26 December 2012 (UTC)

iOS 6.1 on revised iPhone 4 (n90bap)
Neil claims that the [ revised iPhone 4 didn't get iOS 6.1 betas 1-], but Apple [appears to have] released [ OTA Updates] for the device. 9to5mac's report on 6.1b1 and 6.1b2 contains a dev center screenshot that shows no link for the revised device. After inspecting com_apple_MobileAsset_SoftwareUpdate.xml, there are, in fact, payloads for 6.1b2-6.1b3 and 6.1b3-6.1b4. If there was one for 6.1b1-6.1b2, it has been removed. Any ideas? --5urd (talk) 22:30, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * There must have been due to OTA updates. That is enough evidence. --adaminsull (talk) 18:43, 27 December 2012 (UTC)
 * OTA updates aren't enought evidence. Apple's automatic packaging system could have compiled the deltas even though there wasn't an IPSW for the device. Unless you can give proof of an IPSW, there are no betas. --5urd (talk) 20:45, 27 December 2012 (UTC)

Theme (take 2)
Several people are compaining about the theming/style change 1 2. I wasn't involved in this change (except the new image), but I think there was no discussion about changing the default style. Can't we switch the default style back to how it was and for those that like a fancy new theme can still have the new one? -- http 16:37, 9 March 2012 (MST)
 * The way to add new themes would be to have access to the server. Thats why we did this. What we can do is get geohot to copy Vector.php, Vector.deps.php, and Vector/ to iPhone.php, iPhone.deps.php, and iPhone/ and modify some variables. I can do that. Then just move Mediawiki:Vector.css to Mediawiki:iPhone.css. --5urd 17:05, 9 March 2012 (MST)
 * Second this. In fact, seeing as it'll have the same base html/css/js as vector, geohot can copy Vector.deps.php&rarr;iPhone.deps.php, save this to iPhone.php, put $wgDefaultSkin="iphone";</tt> in LocalSettings.php and then move the css the  kirby  lover  02:01, 13 March 2012 (MDT)
 * As I've tweeted about since last night, I decided to give the current iOS-like theme a bit of a makeover. Here's how it looks in Chromium. The theme also works in Firefox for Windows, except the left navigation tabs aren't shifted closer to the center. I haven't gotten around to testing it in other browsers just yet, unfortunately. Thoughts on this? -- Dialexio 18:32, 12 March 2012 (MDT)
 * Looks great, though as I mentioned on twitter, the heading should be put somewhere in the title bar area so it looks more realistic. Maybe something similar to the "other network" window under Wi-Fi settings. the  kirby  lover  02:01, 13 March 2012 (MDT)
 * That'd be nice, but I don't want the page heading to overlap the tabs. -- Dialexio 13:46, 13 March 2012 (MDT)

I added my modifications to the theme. It works as desired in all (desktop) browsers except IE… I'll make an attempt at improving the theme in IE 7/+. -- Dialexio 21:05, 8 April 2012 (MDT)
 * Looking great :) I tested in IE8 and 9, doesn't look too bad, barring the unselected tabs due to the solid background; you can use the longer filter</tt>/-ms-filter</tt> syntax like so for IE gradients the  kirby  lover  09:06, 15 April 2012 (MDT)

I created more modifications that I'd like feedback on before the possibly get implemented. Both of these are meant to further help emulate the iOS look. I was thinking of giving the sidebar and header bar fixed positioning, so they stick around regardless of where you scroll. (Screenshot) I also created some CSS that makes some headers (particularly those on the Main Page and Special pages page) look like iOS… sections? (I don't recall the correct term for it.) Here's a screenshot since I suck at describing what I'm trying to say. :P Thoughts on these changes? -- Dialexio 19:39, 11 September 2012 (MDT)
 * They're section headers :) and they look great, but maybe some negative margins (like ) could be used to make them extend to the edge of the page area and look more iOS-y. The top bar could go well with some fixed positioning, but I don't think the sidebar should.  the  kirby  lover  19:51, 11 September 2012 (MDT)
 * I didn't really want the sidebar to be fixed either. However, the title bar actually stretches across the complete width of the page, and scrolling down on long pages can reveal that. Currently, that section of the title bar is hidden by applying the linen background to the logo, hence why I currently have the sidebar fixed. Any ideas on how deal with the title bar? -- Dialexio 13:04, 14 September 2012 (MDT)
 * One small issue I noticed with making the title bar fixed is that, when you click on an anchor link, the title bar will cover up the header for the section you're looking at (and some content as well). You can always scroll a little up to see what was being blocked though. To combat this problem, I entertained the idea of making just the area where page content is displayed the part that scrolls. I don't think that a lot of people (especially those with small screens) would like this change, so I'm expecting heavy criticism. I plan on using the previously-mentioned method for the fixed title bar instead of this newer method, unless everybody actually prefers the newer method. :P (Note that the scrolling area is not for the whole page, just the content area.) -- Dialexio 20:13, 16 September 2012 (MDT)

I'm interested in changing the banner alert for when someone edits your talk page (or a page you're watching?). Here's how it currently looks, and here's here's my proposal. The newer styling is based on iOS once again (the notification banners) and seems more pleasing to the eye, but I'm not sure if it catches the user's attention as well as the older version. (I think it does, but I'm biased. :P) Thoughts? -- Dialexio ( talk ) 20:03, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Ummmm... Your proposal can't be found :P --5urd (talk) 20:14, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * Fixed the link. Not sure how that "z" slipped into the URL. -- Dialexio ( talk ) 21:34, 24 December 2012 (UTC)
 * I love it! Maybe move it up a bit and stretch across the entire screen like a notification center banner? I might be able to through together some CSS (vector.js) for a fold down like the iOS banners. --5urd (talk) 21:51, 24 December 2012 (UTC)